Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: AQ scoop: Ave Maria University's new directive on the TLM
DIRECTIVE ON LITURGY AT AVE MARIA UNIVERSITY
Distributed by Chaplain Father Robert Garrity
August 4, 2007
We give thanks to Almighty God, as we accustom ourselves to the excellent facilities of our permanent Campus. At this time, the Administration of the University have given this directive on our liturgical practice. It is hoped that all our efforts will enable us to continue to have beautiful and dignified liturgies, always fully in accord with the mind and the liturgical law of the Church.
The ordinary location for most of our Masses this semester will be the “Ballroom,” set up for worship, on the first floor of the Student Union. The Blessed Sacrament is reserved there only, until further notice and until the air conditioning functions properly in the “Ark Chapel” (near the Chaplain’s Office) and in the “Library Chapel” (tentatively to be called “Our Lady’s Chapel”).
The liturgical timetable remains largely the same, except that the first Sunday Mass will be at 8:00 a.m. (rather than 8:30 a.m.) to accommodate time constraints, and the 5:15 p.m. Sunday Mass will be at 8:00 p.m. at the request of Student Life (5:15 p.m. only on August 26, no 8 p.m. Mass that day). The 7:50 a.m. weekday Mass may have to be adjusted to 7:30 a.m. to accommodate class schedules, but this remains to be determined upon the arrival of students after August 20. Thus, starting August 26, the ordinary Liturgical Schedule will be:
Mass: Sunday: 8 a.m., 10 a.m., 12 noon, 8 p.m.
Mass: Weekdays: 7:50 a.m., 12:10 p.m., 5:15 p.m.
Mass: Saturday: 9 a.m., 4 p.m. (Vigil for Sunday)
Confessions: Sat.: 9:30-10:30 a.m., Sun.: 11:15-11:45 a.m., Mon.-Sat.: 2:45-3:45 p.m.
Liturgy of the Hours (in Ballroom or in Ark Chapel): Morning Prayer: Sunday at 9:30 a.m., Saturday at 8:30 a.m., Weekdays at 7:30 a.m. (may be adjusted in Sept.); Evening Prayer: daily at 5:15 p.m.; Night Prayer: daily at 9:20 p.m.
Evening Rosary Walk: 9 p.m. daily, from Student Union
The 8:00 a.m. Mass on Sunday will be in Latin, in the ordinary Novus Ordo form. The 7:50 AM Masses on Tuesdays and Thursdays will be in Latin, in the ordinary Novus Ordo form. Normally all other Masses will be in English.
The practice of celebrating Mass ad orientem is accepted at the first Mass of the morning for a priest or priests having a personal preference for this practice. However, ad orientem is not considered the ordinary or obligatory practice at Ave Maria University. At all other Masses the priest or priests are directed to celebrate Mass facing the congregation.
It may happen that a priest wishes to celebrate the extraordinary form of the Mass of the Roman Rite, a Mass in accordance with the Roman Missal of 1962, commonly called a “Tridentine Mass.” This may be out of personal preference or in response to requests from the faithful. In accord with the provisions of “Summorum Pontificum,” the Holy Father’s apostolic letter given “motu proprio” (“on his own impulse”), arrangements will be made beforehand through the Chaplain’s Office to celebrate properly the Tridentine Mass in the Ark Chapel or in the Library Chapel. At the present time, the Tridentine Mass will not be available in the “Ballroom.”
The University’s opening Mass on August 27 will be in English, with the priest facing the people.
In September of 2005, Father Chad Ripperger, was invited by Una Voce – a private traditional Catholic organization not affiliated with the university - to give a talk and offer an off-campus private Mass. Father Ripperger is a traditional priest with the Fraternal Society of Saint Peter (FSSP), a fully legitimate priestly society authorized by the Holy See by John Paul II. Father Ripperger, who happens to be a former student of Father Fessio’s from their days at the Ignatius institute, is described by Father Fessio as “someone whose zeal and fidelity I have the highest regard for.” The students had asked for and received permission from Father Fessio to have Father Ripperger visit. Everything seemed to be a go. Things began to go south however when news of Father Ripperger’s visit reached the desk of AMU Chaplain, Father Robert Garrity. Father Garrity telephoned Father Ripperger and informed him that if he intended to visit, Father Ripperger must concelebrate a Novus Ordo Mass. The clear implication was that if Father Ripperger refused to comply with the unusual request, the already planned and approved event would not be allowed to take place. Being that Father Ripperger (like the vast majority of his FSSP brethren) does not offer or concelebrate Novus Ordo Masses, it was impossible for him to agree to Fr. Garrity’s odd, late-breaking precondition. Father had no choice but to inform Una Voce and the students that he, regretfully, had to cancel.
Later that same month, Father Garrity would take further measures against the traditional students at AMU, whom he viewed as “divisive.” A newly formed traditional student group named “The Saint Gregory Sodality” (after Pope Saint Gregory the Great) had submitted a draft of its constitution in order to become officially recognized by the university. After reviewing the proposed constitution, in an email copied to Nick Healy and other officials, Garrity demanded a long list of unusual amendments to the constitution. In a section of the document entitled “Long Term Goals,” was a sentence which read “Assist in making the traditional Roman liturgy available on or near campus.” Garrity instructed the Sodality students to omit the sentence altogether because, he explained “the traditional Roman liturgy is celebrated here at AMU abundantly… the Mass of the Second Vatican and of its postconcilliar legislation is the traditional liturgy… therefore, this ‘Long Term Goal’ of the Sodality is currently unattainable.” In other words, the group was to abandon any and all efforts to have the traditional Mass offered anywhere near AMU because, according to Garrity, it already was being offered. Either the students were woefully ignorant of their surroundings, or Garrity had just declared the Novus Ordo (which translates literally to “New Order”) as “the traditional Roman liturgy.” Garrity would further impress the students by demanding that his appointment as Speech Tsar be constitutionally mandated. He instructed them to add to their constitution “It is for the Ave Maria University Chaplain to interpret and apply the meaning of the term ‘traditional’...” Garrity was making it clear that he and he alone was to determine the very meaning of the very word “traditional.” Further on in the email, Garrity would complete the clampdown by stating “this issue of pressing for the Tridentine Mass at AMU need not be, and is not to be, brought up again to the Chaplain or to University officials, lest divisiveness and frustration be the result. Furthermore, the Sodality is directed to refrain from any activity or speech which is deemed by the Chaplain to be divisive or misleading to other students.” With this one sentence, Garrity was telling the students that there was to be no mention of the Tridentine Mass and was appointing himself overseer of all activity and speech in regard to the singled out Sodality students. Father Garrity's intervention had effectively neutralized The Saint Gregory Sodality.
In March of 2006, two traditional students from Sodality were participating in a private, off campus event that was being sponsored by Una Voce. It was to be a series of three talks along with three Tridentine Masses. The talks and Masses were to be given by Father Demets, a traditional priest from the Fraternal Society of Saint Peter (FSSP), and were to be held on private property not belonging to AMU. The event in no way was affiliated with the university and no university priest or staff member had any authority over it. When word of the event got back to university administrators, they made every effort to nip it in the bud. One thing lead to another until the environment became so hostile that the Mass intended for the third night was called off. The beleaguered FSSP priest could have given the third and final Mass, but fearing reprisals would be taken against the students, he thought it best not to. Although Fr. Garrity had no jurisdiction over the private facility, he showed up at the location on the last night to see to it that the third Mass did not take place. For two of the students involved, there was talk of expulsion. The reason given was that they used university property (email) to spread the word of the event. Father Fessio stepped in on behalf of the students and the expulsion was averted.
Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: AQ scoop: Ave Maria University's new directive on the TL
Fr. Garrity wrote:
In accord with the provisions of “Summorum Pontificum,” the Holy Father’s apostolic letter given “motu proprio” (“on his own impulse”)
"His own impulse." That's an interesting translation. Usually it gets translated as "his own initiative" but I suppose "impulse" does manage to get across the idea of movement.
It's interesting too that he didn't feel any need to supply translations for the other latin terms used in the memo (ad orientem, novus ordo). Perhaps he presumed that his audience understands those terms. But then again, anyone familiar with those terms likely knows what a "motu proprio" is already.
Surely he doesn't wish to suggest that the Holy Father has acted "impulsively"?
From this letter, though, it seems that Ave Maria's response to the M.P. is lukewarm, at best. That's a shame, as embracing the 1962 Missal with great enthusiasm would be a way that AMU might truly distinguish itself. Of course, their tepid response is not particularly surprising in light of some of the less-than-encouraging things that we've heard about the school over the past year (e.g., the treatment of Fr. Fessio).
I am looking in the MP for a passage that would enable a college chaplain to regulate a priest's ability to say the TLM in private. No luck yet.
Fr. Garrity is not stipulating how priests are to celebrate in private. His statement refers to celebrating Mass using the university facilities - "arrangements will be made beforehand through the Chaplain’s Office to celebrate properly the Tridentine Mass in the Ark Chapel or in the Library Chapel". I do believe the university has a right to require arrangements to be made before their chapels are used. _________________ Acouĕtĕ Leoi!
Fr. Garrity is not stipulating how priests are to celebrate in private. His statement refers to celebrating Mass using the university facilities - "arrangements will be made beforehand through the Chaplain’s Office to celebrate properly the Tridentine Mass in the Ark Chapel or in the Library Chapel".
Make no mistake about it, Father Garrity and the other powers that be at AMU want nothing to do with the TLM. This is why they haven't put it on the schedule, and are refusing to allow it in the main Mass facility, despite the fact that dozens of students (out of only 350) signed a petition requesting it.
If they allow it at all it will be with great reluctance. These are the same folks that ran two FSSP priests out of town and and forbid the traditional campus group from using the very WORD "tradition" without Chaplain Garrity's approval. I kid you not.
Their head of theology, Father Lamb could give the Mass now, as he has hundreds of times in the past when he was in Boston at the TLM church that O'Malley is shutting down.
What type of Masses is get first priority at "Orthodox" AMU you ask? Why, healing Masses of course!
Here's a pic of Father McAlear at work during his REGULARLY SCHEDULED healing Mass:
I never said Fr. Garrity did or did not support the TLM. His statement allows for the possibility of it being celebrating, and I believe his condition is reasonable. Whatever may have happened with an FSSP priest, he is not forbidding priests from privately celebrating the TLM. It's the school's chapels, their campus, and I believe they have a right to ask priests to make arrangements before they celebrate the TLM Mass in their facilities. _________________ Acouĕtĕ Leoi!
At all other Masses the priest or priests are directed to celebrate Mass facing the congregation.
I guess I didn't read between the lines finely enough to see the encouragement, or even the acknowledgment, of the permissions granted in the MP. Silly me.
They're still allowing it to happen at the first Mass of the day. Not every Mass - ok, fine! But rather than looking on the negative side and giving Ave even more bad publicity, how about recognizing this as a good thing, and accepting it for what it is? _________________ Acouĕtĕ Leoi!
An allowing for the TLM Mass on a new Catholic campus, when very few universities are going to allow it? Or is it just something falling short of your dreams and expectations? _________________ Acouĕtĕ Leoi!
Joined: 05 Aug 2004 Posts: 3062 Location: Philadelphia, PA USA
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:56 am Post subject:
How do we know that it is Fr. Garrity who is responsible for these rules? He seems to be shifting the responsibility elsewhere ("the Administration of the University"). He might be one of those types who personally does not like the TLM but doesn't have an issue with others' being attached to it.
They're still allowing it to happen at the first Mass of the day. Not every Mass - ok, fine! But rather than looking on the negative side and giving Ave even more bad publicity, how about recognizing this as a good thing, and accepting it for what it is?
They are NOT allowing it to happen at the first Mass of the day. They are allowing the Latin NO. That is NOT the TLM.
The MP gave permission for ALL Priest, WHEREVER they are, to say the TLM privately WITHOUT permission. They seemed to have found away around that by requiring permission to use their Chapels.
In addition, they are violating the MP. If they have dozens of students who signed a petition requesting the TLM, according to the MP, they must provide them with the TLM.
These students should definitely take their case to Ecclesia Dei if come 9/14, they are still meeting resistance.
I also noted that they are even dictating that the Priest must face the people in ALL Masses, except the first Mass of the morning. I quess they feel they can do this because once again, their Chapels are being used.
An allowing for the TLM Mass on a new Catholic campus, when very few universities are going to allow it? Or is it just something falling short of your dreams and expectations?
If you think I have lofty dreams and expectations for either AMU or the MP, you haven't been following along very closely here.
They're still allowing it to happen at the first Mass of the day. Not every Mass - ok, fine!
No they're not, read the letter. It's referring to the Novus Ordo Mass in Latin. The only reason they're even allowing that is because Father Fessio fought so hard for it.
Quote:
But rather than looking on the negative side and giving Ave even more bad publicity...
I couldn't give AMU any further bad publicity. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't compete with the bad publicity duo extraordiare of Tom Monaghan and Nick Healy. They've become pros at generating bad publicity, turning it into some high-art form. They don't need my help, they're doing just fine on their own.
Quote:
...how about recognizing this as a good thing, and accepting it for what it is?
Of course it's a good thing that the Mass may be at AMU, that's one of the reasons I posted the story. But it will be despite Garrity and those like him, not because of him. The only reason why we'd ever see it at all is because they're run out of excuses for prohibiting it. They have no choice but to allow it now, but will only do so as sparingly as possible.
How do we know that it is Fr. Garrity who is responsible for these rules? He seems to be shifting the responsibility elsewhere ("the Administration of the University"). He might be one of those types who personally does not like the TLM but doesn't have an issue with others' being attached to it.
We don't know that he's responsible for the rule, but not only is he NOT at all friendly to anything traditional at AMU, he detests it. A "traditionalist cleanser" if you will.
Quote:
“It is for the Ave Maria University Chaplain to interpret and apply the meaning of the term ‘traditional’...”
“…the traditional Roman liturgy is celebrated here at AMU abundantly in Latin and in English, in complete accord with the liturgical law of the Church. The Mass of the Second Vatican Council and of its postconciliar legislation is the traditional Roman liturgy.”
“Therefore, to focus obsessively on fostering the Tridentine Mass at AMU bespeaks a gravely flawed ecclesiology which should be rooted out…
- Father Robert Garrity, Sept. 27, 2005 in a letter to an on-campus traditional group.
An allowing for the TLM Mass on a new Catholic campus, when very few universities are going to allow it? Or is it just something falling short of your dreams and expectations?
When you're talking about a school that bills itself as a bastion of Catholic orthodoxy, can its tepid response to the M.P. be excused on the basis of what other Catholic colleges are or aren't doing? Isn't the whole point of AMU to be more Catholic than the other schools?
Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 918 Location: Guildford, UK
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject:
Monaghan will have to have nerves of steal to see this project through in view of the civil hostility being shown towards it of an anti-religious nature. He may have to sacrifice some Catholic principles to satisfy government authoritiies and fend off legal challenges. I don't like the new church and its modern interior; he is obviously a conservative and not a traditionalist. But one has to feel some sympathy despite the internal politics and hope it does not become just another retirement development in sunny Florida.
They're still allowing it to happen at the first Mass of the day. Not every Mass - ok, fine!
No they're not, read the letter. It's referring to the Novus Ordo Mass in Latin. The only reason they're even allowing that is because Father Fessio fought so hard for it.
Quote:
But rather than looking on the negative side and giving Ave even more bad publicity...
I couldn't give AMU any further bad publicity. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't compete with the bad publicity duo extraordiare of Tom Monaghan and Nick Healy. They've become pros at generating bad publicity, turning it into some high-art form. They don't need my help, they're doing just fine on their own.
Quote:
...how about recognizing this as a good thing, and accepting it for what it is?
Of course it's a good thing that the Mass may be at AMU, that's one of the reasons I posted the story. But it will be despite Garrity and those like him, not because of him. The only reason why we'd ever see it at all is because they're run out of excuses for prohibiting it. They have no choice but to allow it now, but will only do so as sparingly as possible.
Soiunds like a great place to go for a degree in kidding yourself.
Of course it's a good thing that the Mass may be at AMU, that's one of the reasons I posted the story. But it will be despite Garrity and those like him, not because of him.
Let me get this straight.
In this beacon of orthodoxy the traditional Mass is the Latin NO, and that's only there because Fr Fessio, a publisher of books suggesting the possibility of universal salvation, fought this heroic battle to have it there. Meanwhile, excessive TLM attachment is a sign of a "false ecclesiology" [which most of us appear to share] that needs to be rooted out.
“It is for the Ave Maria University Chaplain to interpret and apply the meaning of the term ‘traditional’...”
“…the traditional Roman liturgy is celebrated here at AMU abundantly in Latin and in English, in complete accord with the liturgical law of the Church. The Mass of the Second Vatican Council and of its postconciliar legislation is the traditional Roman liturgy.”
“Therefore, to focus obsessively on fostering the Tridentine Mass at AMU bespeaks a gravely flawed ecclesiology which should be rooted out…
- Father Robert Garrity, Sept. 27, 2005 in a letter to an on-campus traditional group.
servitium, is it possible for you to post that whole letter?
servitium, is it possible for you to post that whole letter?
Your wish is my command.
Below is the full letter to the St. Gregory Sodality - the on-campus traditional Catholic group - from Father Garrity in regard to their proposed constitution. The letter was written soon after he (et al) ran Father Ripperger off.
It speaks for itself.
From: Fr. Robert Garrity
Sent: Tue 9/27/2005
To: REDACTED
Cc: Nick Healy; Fr. Joseph Fessio; Dan Dentino
Subject: St. Gregory Sodality Constitution
Dear REDACTED,
Father Ripperger has declined the opportunity to speak here at Ave Maria University. This comes in the wake of my asking him to concelebrate the Novus Ordo Mass here on campus rather than celebrate a “private” Tridentine Mass in your apartment. In order to avoid future divisiveness on the question of promoting the Tridentine Mass here at AMU, here are my thought (sic) and corrections on the St. Gregory Sodality’s proposed Constitution:
1. Cover sheet regarding “Long Term Goals”: omit “Assist in making the Traditional Roman liturgy available on or near campus.” Omit this because, in fact, the traditional Roman liturgy is celebrated here at AMU abundantly in Latin and in English, in complete accord with the liturgical law of the Church. The Mass of the Second Vatican Council and of its postconciliar legislation is the traditional Roman liturgy. Moreover, by decree of the AMU President, Provost, and Chaplain, in consultation with the Bishop of the Diocese of Venice, and in accord with the norm of law, the Tridentine Mass is not celebrated here at AMU. Therefore, the “Long Term Goal” of the Sodality is currently unattainable and is to be omitted from the proposed Constitution, lest the result be divisiveness and unrest and frustration, which Our Lord never intended as the result of the Most Holy Eucharist, the Sacrament of Unity.
2. Art. I, line 2 omit “Pope,” to be consistent with the title above in Latin.
3. Art. II, after “at large,” insert “It is for the Ave Maria University Chaplain to interpret and apply the meaning of the term “traditional,” lest there be any confusion or misunderstanding. Specifically, the Novus Ordo Mass of Vatican II and of its postconciliar legislation is the traditional Mass in the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. The Mass most widely in use from the Council of Trent until 1962 is to be termed “the Tridentine Mass,” not the “traditional Mass,” lest there be any confusion about terms. If Pope Benedict XVI expands the exception so that the Tridentine Mass is to be celebrated more widely, then the Sodality may re-petition the Chaplain for permission to promote the celebration of the Tridentine Mass at AMU. Until then, this issue of pressing for the Tridentine Mass at AMU need not be, and is not to be, brought up again to the Chaplain or to University officials, lest divisiveness and frustration be the result. Furthermore, the Sodality is directed to refrain from any activity or speech which is deemed by the Chaplain to be divisive or misleading to other students, lest they have any doubts about the complete validity and liceity of the Novus Ordo Mass. In accord with the norm of canon 754, the Sodality members “are obliged to observe the constitutions and decrees which the legitimate authority of the Church issues in order to propose doctrine and to proscribe erroneous opinions.” The Second Vatican Council’s Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy (Sacrosanctum Concilium), the pre-eminent liturgical law in our era, along with its postcounciliar legislation, establishes clearly that the Novus Ordo Mass is the traditional of the Latin Rite in the post-Vatican II era. This Novus Ordo Mass is established by the exact same authority as the previously celebrated Tridentine Mass, that is, by the authority of the Church, the Pope, and the Ecumenical Council. Therefore, to focus obsessively on fostering the Tridentine Mass at AMU bespeaks a gravely flawed ecclesiology which should be rooted out, lest divisiveness and confusion and misunderstanding result. Failure by the Sodality to cooperate fully with these norms will result in disciplinary action from the Chaplain, ranging from fraternal correction to the possible disbanding of the Sodality.
4. Art. VI: “Article” is single; omit the “s.” Section 1: after “office,” insert “for a just cause”; sec. 2: after “organization,” insert “for a just cause”; sec. 3 after “expelled” insert “for a just cause.”.
5. Art. X: sec. 3: after “understand as,” insert “50 percent plus one vote.”
I hope that these additions will assist the Sodality of St. Gregory the Great in being a group which truly fosters a deepening of Catholic Faith and unity here at Ave Maria University. God bless you.
Insert “It is for the Ave Maria University Chaplain to interpret and apply the meaning of the term “traditional,” lest there be any confusion or misunderstanding.
An allowing for the TLM Mass on a new Catholic campus, when very few universities are going to allow it? Or is it just something falling short of your dreams and expectations?
When you're talking about a school that bills itself as a bastion of Catholic orthodoxy, can its tepid response to the M.P. be excused on the basis of what other Catholic colleges are or aren't doing? Isn't the whole point of AMU to be more Catholic than the other schools?
At least as Catholic as Notre Dame, for heaven's sake!
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 2716 Location: Indiana, USA
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:10 pm Post subject:
ancientpapacy wrote:
Of course it's a good thing that the Mass may be at AMU, that's one of the reasons I posted the story. But it will be despite Garrity and those like him, not because of him.
Let me get this straight.
In this beacon of orthodoxy the traditional Mass is the Latin NO, and that's only there because Fr Fessio, a publisher of books suggesting the possibility of universal salvation, fought this heroic battle to have it there. Meanwhile, excessive TLM attachment is a sign of a "false ecclesiology" [which most of us appear to share] that needs to be rooted out.
What am I missing?
What you are missing is the fact that the traditional Mass is, by definition, not the Latin NO (i.e., Novus Ordo). That is like saying that in the school cafeteria green beans are cucumbers. They're simply not the same thing.
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:15 am Post subject: Which ...
Father Ripperger has declined the opportunity to speak here at Ave Maria University. This comes in the wake of my asking him to concelebrate the Novus Ordo Mass here on campus rather than celebrate a “private” Tridentine Mass in your apartment. In order to avoid future divisiveness on the question of promoting the Tridentine Mass here at AMU, here are my thought (sic) and corrections on the St. Gregory Sodality’s proposed Constitution:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A Comment on the above-mentioned word "divisiveness":The Traditional Latin Mass was the Norm of the Latin Rite for literally Hundreds of years ... NO Problem. In 1969, the Novus Ordo Rite of the Mass was introduced ... Suddenly, and by abusive Force.
So where does the "divisiveness" stem from: are we to attribute it to the Mass of the Ages or to that Rite concocted by Archbishop Bugnini (an alleged Freemason who was Banished by the Pope to Iran...) and 6 Protestant Ministers who were obviously Delighted to see their Hoary Protestant Errors given new life as they were included in the N.O. Mass?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 9791 Location: Central Massachusetts
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:37 am Post subject:
Quote:
... excessive TLM attachment is a sign of a "false ecclesiology" that needs to be rooted out.
The neo-modernists also use the term "false ecclesiology" when speaking of the 1984 and 1988 indults which Pope John Paul II granted:
In conjunction with the 1984 one: In the Vatican II spirit of the new ecclesiology of "episcopal collegiality" (that is, the bishops share in the governance of the Universal Church, and their consensus should be sought followed on matters concerning the whole Church, John Paul II had a worldwide poll of the bishops on the question of the demand or interest in the TLM in their dioceses. The results of the poll: A near unanimous reply of little or no interest or demand. Nonetheless, the Pope ignored their "collegial" response and issued the limited 1984 indult.
In conjunction with the 1988 indult: John Paul II "unilaterally" and "arbitrarily" issued the motu proprio "Ecclesia Dei" without consulting the bishops and thus exercised an "outdated" and "false" eccesiology.
Nonetheless, the neo-modernists are not as brazen in their rhetoric as the AMU crowd, who say that this false eccesiology must be rooted out.
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:38 pm Post subject: From a former AVE Student...
I was a student at Ave Maria and also part of the St. Gregory sodality. What others have written here is no word of a lie. In fact, the facts and faculty attitudes have been modestly portrayed.
I remember when a group of student approached the faculty and obtained permission for a regular "Praise and Worship" Mass. They were granted it, not just once a week, but twice, and in the evenings, which is prime for most students. However, I was also present at the meetings in which Fr. Garrity would rant and rave about how the Novus Ordo *is* the Traditional Mass and would refuse to believe that the Tridentine Mass was for more than old folks who were silly in their attachment to the antiquated use. One student shared a heart-felt, personal tribute to what the Latin Mass meant to them, and why it was imperative to the benefit of their soul. Father dismissed this by saying that the Latin Mass wasn't, in fact, imperative to that person's soul. It became a "chicken or the egg" discourse until the student had to be the bigger person and remain silent.
I have since left Ave Maria. Yet I have heard of the Healing Masses that go on. I also have seen Mr. Monahan talking on the Today Show about his vision for Ave Maria Town, and he is proud to say that Ave Maria will not be a Catholic town. That's sad, because I had such high hopes for the city; we need a Catholic beacon in this desolate society.
Ave still has a lot going for it. It has a nice community with lots of religious. They have both a men's and a women's discernment program. At 6am, Noon, and 6pm, the Angelus Bells ring, and everyone recites the prayer together. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is held several times each day, and the Sacrament of Penance is offered daily during the school year. The chapel has an altar rail that is optional when receiving Communion (but 99% of people use it) and, at least when I was there, there were no "extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion." Each night, there is a rosary walk around campus, followed by Night Prayer in the Ark Chapel. In choir class, you can learn Gregorian chant, ancient hymns, and decent "modern" hymns... NOT just "One Bread, One Body." The academic standards are rigorous. The professors are excellent. The campus is small, intimate, and beautiful.
That being said.... it's not a far cry from being Stuebenville.
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: Re: From a former AVE Student...
servantofjesusandmary wrote:
In fact, the facts and faculty attitudes have been modestly portrayed.
...
I was also present at the meetings in which Fr. Garrity would rant and rave about how the Novus Ordo *is* the Traditional Mass and would refuse to believe that the Tridentine Mass was for more than old folks who were silly in their attachment to the antiquated use. One student shared a heart-felt, personal tribute to what the Latin Mass meant to them, and why it was imperative to the benefit of their soul. Father dismissed this by saying that the Latin Mass wasn't, in fact, imperative to that person's soul.
...
The chapel has an altar rail that is optional when receiving Communion (but 99% of people use it) and, at least when I was there, there were no "extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion."
The first part is saddening...I want so badly to give him the benefit of the doubt. But actions speak louder than words.
At the new campus (opening this semester in case anyone didn't already know) there will be NO communion rail. Garrity has told students that the faithful are welcome to kneel anyway, but it's the principle of HAVING the rail in the first place. I have no problem kneeling without a rail, and many students and faculty will still kneel, but something profound and deeply respectful has been taken away - for no reason. There still are no EM's, so we've still got that going for us. There are - very very rarely - altar boys as Eucharistic Ministers, and occasionally one of the nuns on campus will EM as well. But the majority of the time, it's just the priest.
I can remember when we used to laugh at "Holy Rollers". The religion of ginned up enthusiasm is the popular version of the religion of gnosis. They are both forms of a presumed divine immanence, the real presence in the (re-) assembly.
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: From a former AVE Student...
Deus Caritas Est wrote:
At the new campus (opening this semester in case anyone didn't already know) there will be NO communion rail. Garrity has told students that the faithful are welcome to kneel anyway, but it's the principle of HAVING the rail in the first place. I have no problem kneeling without a rail, and many students and faculty will still kneel, but something profound and deeply respectful has been taken away - for no reason. There still are no EM's, so we've still got that going for us. There are - very very rarely - altar boys as Eucharistic Ministers, and occasionally one of the nuns on campus will EM as well. But the majority of the time, it's just the priest.
Are you talking about the temporary facilities for Mass at AMU or the Oratory? I thought the Oratory had a communion rail.
The temporary building will not have a communion rail - sorry I didn't specify. The Oratory is supposed to, as far as I know, but I don't think it's opening until next semester.
One HUGE problem I've noticed is that the altar table - which is another thing designed personally by Monaghan - is not only a hideous monument to avant guard ugliness, but it doesn't seem possible that any type of ad orientum Mass will be possible, Novus Ordo or TLM.
It's got three stone thingies that stick out in front in such a way that a priest facing the tabernacle wouldn't be able to functionally perform an ad orientum Mass.
Last I heard they're trying to talk Monaghan out of this.
One HUGE problem I've noticed is that the altar table - which is another thing designed personally by Monaghan - is not only a hideous monument to avant guard ugliness, but it doesn't seem possible that any type of ad orientum Mass will be possible, Novus Ordo or TLM.
HA the first time I watched the tour, a month or so ago, I didn't even recognize that was the altar. A friend had to tell me that the "mound of blocks" was the altar. From the video, however, it's hard to tell how far the blocks stick out...I hope Monaghan changes his mind about the altar. It would be a shame not to...
One HUGE problem I've noticed is that the altar table - which is another thing designed personally by Monaghan - is not only a hideous monument to avant guard ugliness, but it doesn't seem possible that any type of ad orientum Mass will be possible, Novus Ordo or TLM.
HA the first time I watched the tour, a month or so ago, I didn't even recognize that was the altar. A friend had to tell me that the "mound of blocks" was the altar. From the video, however, it's hard to tell how far the blocks stick out...I hope Monaghan changes his mind about the altar. It would be a shame not to...
This is really sad, albeit not entirely unexpected.
Ave Maria is shaping up to be a place where the academic culture is, like other "Catholic" colleges, disobedient. The disobedience is simply of a somewhat different character.
To deny the legitimate liturgical aspirations of the faithful is, especially in light of Summorum Pontificum, a grave refusal to the request of the Supreme Pontiff.
Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 3188 Location: People's Republic of Kalifornia
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:59 am Post subject:
HallnOates wrote:
I guess all those Catholics over 2000 years must have had a false ecclesiology until the 1960's.
It's more than that, really. Apparently, the entire "Catholic" faith was seriously flawed for the first one thousand, nine hundred sixty-some years of its existence, and was only revealed in its fulness at Vatican II. Imagine all those fools for millenia being more concerned about worshipping God than celebrating God's people. Pathetic.
This is really sad, albeit not entirely unexpected.
Ave Maria is shaping up to be a place where the academic culture is, like other "Catholic" colleges, disobedient. The disobedience is simply of a somewhat different character.
It really is important to understand who is being disobedient and/or defiant at Ave Maria. It is not the academics, it is the upper management led by Nick Healy, a former maritime lawyer who is unqualified to lead a Catholic university, much less to be making the liturgical rules for a Catholic university. But he does, and he is, (both with TSM's blessings), and most of the trouble at AMU stems from those simple facts.
This is really sad, albeit not entirely unexpected.
Ave Maria is shaping up to be a place where the academic culture is, like other "Catholic" colleges, disobedient. The disobedience is simply of a somewhat different character.
To deny the legitimate liturgical aspirations of the faithful is, especially in light of Summorum Pontificum, a grave refusal to the request of the Supreme Pontiff.
Ouch, that hurts. I'm a student at Ave Maria, and, let me assure you, the academics, the prayer life, and the vast majority of students and faculty are wonderful and strong men and women of Christ. Like the person above me said, it's just a handful of certain people. Please don't condemn our whole university for the faults of a few men. Also, they HAVE heeded the words of Pope Benedict in his Summorum Pontificum and we WILL be having the TLM on campus. Not right away, but in the near future, it will be celebrated. With all due respect, please don't say things like this without doing a little research first.
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: Another resignation in the liturgy wars
I have just heard from people at AMU that a staff member has quit on account of these new liturgical directives, and that this person has written a scathing letter to the powers that be at AMU regarding their liturgical meddling and obvious determination to undo all the liturgical good that Fr. Fessio and his ilk have brought to the university.
Here's hoping that this person chooses to go public on the matter.
This is really sad, albeit not entirely unexpected.
Ave Maria is shaping up to be a place where the academic culture is, like other "Catholic" colleges, disobedient. The disobedience is simply of a somewhat different character.
To deny the legitimate liturgical aspirations of the faithful is, especially in light of Summorum Pontificum, a grave refusal to the request of the Supreme Pontiff.
Ouch, that hurts. I'm a student at Ave Maria, and, let me assure you, the academics, the prayer life, and the vast majority of students and faculty are wonderful and strong men and women of Christ. Like the person above me said, it's just a handful of certain people. Please don't condemn our whole university for the faults of a few men. Also, they HAVE heeded the words of Pope Benedict in his Summorum Pontificum and we WILL be having the TLM on campus. Not right away, but in the near future, it will be celebrated. With all due respect, please don't say things like this without doing a little research first.
The research has been done, and copiously at that. You know, it would be one thing if the "few men" you were talking about were Steve the custodian and Carlos from the mailroom, but the fish here is rotting from the head down. As long as this is the case, you will get your "healing masses" in abundance while the TLM is shoved into the darkest corner legally possible.
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