| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Bellarmine2005
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 1004
Location: Mid-West
|
 Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:10 pm Post subject: HAPPY BIRTHDAY VATICAN II |
 |
|
_________________
St. Robert, increase love for the truth in the erring. |
|
| Moderators |
|
 |
And now...
A few words from our sponsors
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:10 pm Post subject: Advertisement |
|
|
|
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Bellarmine2005
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 1004
Location: Mid-West
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
New members receive a special blessing during Sacred Triduum.
See the priest get his feet washed by a woman parishioner
The priest "Fr." Nick receives a blessing at his 20th anniversary "Mass"
Here, "Fr." Jim receives a blessing at his 20th anniversary "Mass"
Time to set the table for dinner
_________________
St. Robert, increase love for the truth in the erring. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Tom
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 9791
Location: Central Massachusetts
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Happy birthday, compliments of Vatican II.
 |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
John314
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 387
Location: Massachusetts
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I think the "exit" sign at the back of the sanctuary in the first set of photos is very appropriate. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Bill McEnaney
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 557
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I hope the Council won't mind if I skip its birthday party. But I wouldn't mind reading its obituary. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Robert Drobot
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 456
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| "Better that only a few Catholics should be left, staunch and sincere in their religion, than that they should, remaining many, desire as it were, to be in collusion with the Church's enemies and in conformity with the open foes of our faith." βSt. Peter Canisius (1521-1597) |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
longwaybacksheep
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 186
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Our Lord is blasphemed by them that say they are Catholics and are not but are the Church of Satan ... and the desires of their father the devil they will do ... And they will put you out of the churches ... |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Bill McEnaney
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 557
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I saw a photo of a priest consecrating croutons. Did I see a bowl full of them just now? |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
tAnGo
Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 602
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[img]http://www.ministranci-jaroslaw.op.opoka.org.pl/3msza.jpg?68,70[/img]
happy happy joy joy happy happy joy joy happy happy joy joy joy!!
_________________
Pray for the conversion of Catholics to Catholicism! |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
EddieArent
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 1373
Location: Orlando, Florida
|
|
| Moderators |
|
|
EddieArent
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 1373
Location: Orlando, Florida
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
 |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Eulogius
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 726
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
 |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Eulogius
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 726
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Cardinal Mahooey presiding over the wine banquet...with a forbidden glass goblet. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
crusader1099
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 946
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm still amazed at how quickly the destruction occured. Only 40 years to completely gut 2000 years of Liturgical and Theological Orthodoxy.
I suppose Satan works quickly when given a foothold.
How much longer can such blasphemy endure?
ECCLESIA MILITANS! |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Bellarmine2005
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 1004
Location: Mid-West
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nuns layin' down the beat.
Can you see us?
Rockin' out
Hey Macarena
Something new for the Sanctuary of God!! It is okay though, there is no tabernacle and the table is pushed against the wall.
_________________
St. Robert, increase love for the truth in the erring. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Eulogius
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 726
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Please keep your elbows off the table... |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Eulogius
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 726
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Interfaith service and meditation? With a priest, an altar with a Buddha, nuns, and some Buddhists.
Ah, Vatican II and its fruits. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Bellarmine2005
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 1004
Location: Mid-West
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Who needs a building, when you can grab some sticks and inflate a raft?
_________________
St. Robert, increase love for the truth in the erring. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Eulogius
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 726
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Eulogius wrote: | Interfaith service and meditation? With a priest, an altar with a Buddha, nuns, and some Buddhists.
Ah, Vatican II and its fruits. |
oops, forgot the graphic portrayal...
 |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Eulogius
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 726
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
And this from an actual Mass (November 2005) in the Seattle diocese, at a local catholic high school celebrating an anniversary of the school. They were so proud of the dancing, the picture was published in the local diocesan newspaper:
 |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Psyche
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 548
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yikes. And boo, hiss. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
murph
Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 2840
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
 |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
murph
Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 2840
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Moderators |
|
|
titobill
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 195
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Someone call an exorcist!
_________________
Darnel looks like wheat before it comes to fruit. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Statius
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 452
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Whener I see that picture (the last one) I think of the song 'The Circle of Life' from the Lion King.
Has anyone ever concidered making a satire about the fruits of Vatican II. Not a full-fledged comedy, but something which is both laughable and at the same time disgusting. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Barbara
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 1085
Location: Sullivan County NY
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Statius wrote: | | Has anyone ever concidered making a satire about the fruits of Vatican II. |
AQ's own JDobbs has done it. Here's the first chapter; full text is in the Off-Topic category.
http://angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3063
_________________
The will of God, your sanctification. (1Thess 4:3) |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Statius
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 452
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
2028?
Seems a little behind the times
I had thought by that point they would only be using Ad Geocentram multiple altars in holes in the sanctuary floor to accomodate the both Extraordinary Liturgical Dancers of Song and Ministering and their flowing polyster gowns and more concelebrtants (because more concelebrants makes a more poweful and meaningful concecration...)
The holes also serve as baptising pools, and when necessary, they facilitate games of mega whack-a-mole while for the people who finish the Liturgy of the Sign of Peace before everyone else. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
DJR
Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 2078
Location: Atlanta
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Tom wrote: | Happy birthday, compliments of Vatican II.
|
That picture is actually an Episcopalian service, not a Catholic Mass.
And I know that's only a technicality, as the other pictures don't appear to be Catholic Masses either. However, the other pictures are at least supposed to be of Catholics, while the above picture is not. For what it's worth. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
latinmass
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 37
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Since the N.O. Mass has turned into a "meal and a show", what is this suppose to be? Chinese Takeout?
Or maybe they read the Tarot Card Priest's book and they are "Fortune Cookies"?
Vatican ll--no matter how many ways its "interpreted"--it'll always be a sad and pathetic mockery.
_________________
IN HOC SIGNO VINCES |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Barbara
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 1085
Location: Sullivan County NY
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
What's interesting about the Dominicans on the bedpans is that they're dressed in full-length habits. Having been a nun who wore a habit which covered everything but the face and hands, I can tell you that modernism is alive and well in many so-called traditional, and even cloistered, orders.
_________________
The will of God, your sanctification. (1Thess 4:3) |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Trad Catholic Professor
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 67
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:13 am Post subject: What Is Left to Say? |
|
|
Who could possibly celebrate Vatican II? I submit, Satan and his minions...which, unfortunately, now include hundreds of millions who still call themselves Catholics.
Who could have imagined it could come to this?!?! I weep for us and our children. We all have played a part in this. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
chrys
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 39
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Who could have imagined it could come to this?!?! |
Hmmm....there is clearly some causal link between VII and the Novus Ordo Missal and events that followed, but unfortunately no-one has ever adequately proved it. We could well argue that our real argument should be with its implementation which was very poorly handled. It is interesting to note that the % of Catholics in the world has remained remarkably rock solid over all years since the Council - the distribution though has changed very much, the % is less in Europe and the US, but greater in Africa and Asia. Perhaps the Holy Spirit prefers to act globally rather than confine itself to the Western hemisphere. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Bellarmine2005
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 1004
Location: Mid-West
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There is always a way to make excuses for Vatican II.
_________________
St. Robert, increase love for the truth in the erring. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
chrys
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 39
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | here is always a way to make excuses for Vatican II. |
I think it would be more helpful that instead of engaging in emotional polemic (and posting pictures which have absolutely nothing to do with
Vatican II) on this whole issue, some disciplined theological and scholarly reflection take place here. One must be very careful to clearly delineate between the Council documents themselves, and some abuses that took place afterwards due to poor translations, misunderstandings, and sheer disobedience. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Bellarmine2005
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 1004
Location: Mid-West
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Then begin a post like that. This is a light-hearted thread designed to give us a great chuckle over the new springtime. There is much to be criticized in some of the documents themselves. Thank you very much for understanding the light-hearted nature of this thread.
_________________
St. Robert, increase love for the truth in the erring. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
bibiana
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 1267
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sure chrys, would you like to start by discussing the heresies of Benedict XVI? |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
chrys
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 39
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | would you like to start by discussing the heresies of Benedict XVI? |
I trust this is a rhetorical question, but in the event not, it probably deserves a seperate thread. I'd be very much interested in a list of senior people within the Church who support this private belief of yours. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
redeamus
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 56
Location: Illinois
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | One must be very careful to clearly delineate between the Council documents themselves, and some abuses that took place afterwards due to poor translations, misunderstandings, and sheer disobedience. |
... and decisions made by Paul VI that ignored recommendations made Council.
_________________
Timeo Hahn N.O.s et donuts ferentes |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
redeamus
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 56
Location: Illinois
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
err...
made BY the council.
_________________
Timeo Hahn N.O.s et donuts ferentes |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Haurietis Aquas
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 2324
Location: Mid-West
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| chrys wrote: | | Quote: | | Who could have imagined it could come to this?!?! |
Hmmm....there is clearly some causal link between VII and the Novus Ordo Missal and events that followed, but unfortunately no-one has ever adequately proved it. We could well argue that our real argument should be with its implementation which was very poorly handled. It is interesting to note that the % of Catholics in the world has remained remarkably rock solid over all years since the Council - the distribution though has changed very much, the % is less in Europe and the US, but greater in Africa and Asia. Perhaps the Holy Spirit prefers to act globally rather than confine itself to the Western hemisphere. |
Chrys, Chrys, Chrys ... quit defending the indefensible. You just look silly.
It's a Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow
_________________
Is. 12:3 ... I Cor. 15:25 |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
chrys
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 39
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | hrys, Chrys, Chrys ... quit defending the indefensible. You just look silly. |
I stand by my statements - I actually have nothing to prove here - you who are intimating the causal link (and no doubt its exact nature) have the burden of proof on your shoulders. Perhaps one day we might all be able to be enlightened with such a proof, drawing on the prima facie historical evidence available etc rather than erroneous post hoc ergo propter hoc arguments, and very simplistic thinking. This is a complex issue and set of issues, and nothing can detract from that reality - what it doesn't need is unwarranted personal attacks which only reflect the mindset of the individuals in question, rather than throwing any light on the actual issues themselves. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Bill McEnaney
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 557
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I wonder whether Chrys has ever read Kenneth C. Jones's article "Vatican II Renewal: Myth or Reality" in the Fall 2003 issue of "Latin Mass: A Journal of Catholic Culture." Since Jones's evidence backs up his conclusion, he doesn't commit post hoc ergo propter hoc in that article. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Bellarmine2005
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 1004
Location: Mid-West
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Vatican II supporters are very sensitive. Again, this is meant to be a lighthearted thread where we poke a little fun at something clearly adored by some Catholics.
_________________
St. Robert, increase love for the truth in the erring. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Bill McEnaney
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 557
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I wonder whether Chrys has ever read Kenneth C. Jones's article "Vatican II Renewal: Myth or Reality" in the Fall 2003 issue of "Latin Mass: A Journal of Catholic Culture." Since Jones's evidence backs up his conclusion, he doesn't commit post hoc ergo propter hoc in that article. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Bill McEnaney
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 557
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Bellarmine wrote, "Vatican II supporters are very sensitive. Again, this is meant to be a lighthearted thread where we poke a little fun at something clearly adored by some Catholics."
I wonder whether that makes AQ the Traditionalist version of "The New Oxford Review." 
BTW, sorry about the duplicate post, everybody. I didn't know I had already posted it. Besides, I expected AQ's server to be smart enough to detect a duplicate one. CCF's server knows how to do that. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
chrys
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 39
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | wonder whether Chrys has ever read Kenneth C. Jones's article "Vatican II Renewal: Myth or Reality" in the Fall 2003 issue of "Latin Mass: A Journal of Catholic Culture." Since Jones's evidence backs up his conclusion, he doesn't commit post hoc ergo propter hoc in that article. |
Yes, I have read it before. His evidence does NOT back up his conclusions at all - he's probably a good lawyer, but he should leave statistics to the statisticians. In addition, his argument on the post hoc ergo propter hoc is "First, the correlation in time between the holding of the Council and the subsequent decline is just so startling it's beyond reason to deny the link. I won't go through the numbers again, but in every area the numbers flipped almost immediately with the Council β " This sort of cavalier comment does not only do great harm to his case, is not only unscientific, but is almost laughable in its sweep, and to correct him, the number of priests in the US actually increased from 1965 to 1975 - no flipping there it seems. Its also not clear if he's trying to make a link with the Council documents themselves or with the changes afterwards - these are actually two distinct issues. At no stage, as he proffered any causal link between the VII documents and the various post-conciliar stats - this was presumably his aim but it was not achieved in this article at least. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
magdalen
Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 307
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
'Round and 'round we go - arguing over public ations and statistics.
The core problem of Vatican II was the STAMP OF APPROVAL it afforded for all abuses that would later creep into to the Catholic Faith via the famous, "open window." There have been dissenters and demons who tried to infiltrate the mass and attempt to ursurp The True Faith, but, V2 actually gave the opening to renegades to make legal those awful abuses that were once at least verbally condemned by Rome. They opened Pandora's Box with a smile and there is no one in n.o. land who will close it, since it has been widely accepted to be THE TRUE 'light of revelation' to those so 'enlightened' ; even greater that Christ Himself. No; The Second Vatican Council cannot be defended. All the pictures above are painful reminders of the n.o. life I left behind me. They DO exist, and they are a direct result of V2 and it's worship of man rather than God.
Let's say you have a canary, you love him and he is so beauriful. you love taking care of him. You treasure him and feed him and keep him safe. Then, one day, you open the cage to give him a little, 'freedom', and he gets out through an open window. It is pretty safe to say it would be a miracle to get him back, since once he gets out into the world, he is most probably lost forever. He is scared, but, he does not return home. He no longer knows which way to go. Then comes the hawk. Picks him off of a nearby cherry tree. Should have kept the doors and windows closed.
_________________
Caritas. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
Bellarmine2005
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 1004
Location: Mid-West
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| magdalen wrote: | 'Round and 'round we go - arguing over public ations and statistics.
The core problem of Vatican II was the STAMP OF APPROVAL it afforded for all abuses that would later creep into to the Catholic Faith via the famous, "open window." There have been dissenters and demons who tried to infiltrate the mass and attempt to usurp The True Faith, but, V2 actually gave the opening to renegades to make legal those awful abuses that were once at least verbally condemned by Rome. They opened Pandora's Box with a smile and there is no one in n.o. land who will close it, since it has been widely accepted to be THE TRUE 'light of revelation' to those so 'enlightened' ; even greater that Christ Himself. No; The Second Vatican Council cannot be defended. All the pictures above are painful reminders of the n.o. life I left behind me. They DO exist, and they are a direct result of V2 and it's worship of man rather than God.
Let's say you have a canary, you love him and he is so beautiful. you love taking care of him. You treasure him and feed him and keep him safe. Then, one day, you open the cage to give him a little, 'freedom', and he gets out through an open window. It is pretty safe to say it would be a miracle to get him back, since once he gets out into the world, he is most probably lost forever. He is scared, but, he does not return home. He no longer knows which way to go. Then comes the hawk. Picks him off of a nearby cherry tree. Should have kept the doors and windows closed. |
You are correct there is no defending the indefensible. Yet, the neo-Catholic mindset is one of denial. They deny that the problems in the church have any link to Vatican II. Yes Virginia, there is denial. Instead they cling, like a man to a life-jacket, to the notion that the problem has been in the interpretation. How many more real meanings of Vatican II must we endure? Holy Father Benedict XVI has recently discussed returning to the real meaning of Vatican II. Prior to him, we were told that Pope John Paul "the Great" not only embodied the council, but gave us an authentic interpretation of the council. Thus, everything pictured above is the authentic spirit of Vatican II (and it is sad that it is now to the point where we can't discern an Episcopalian and N.O. service). The Assisi meeting is also the authentic interpretation of the council. If it isn't, then we can assume that we incorrectly believed that John Paul II gave us an authentic interpretation of the council and that the real one exists and we just need another pope to show us what that is. 40 years and waiting for a real interpretation.
_________________
St. Robert, increase love for the truth in the erring. |
|
| Moderators |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
